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Talk:Ordainer
How many people have this class? if you do, is it any good? I want this class, and would like to know more about it before i start so i am not wasting my time. thanks.Caspa992 08:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC) This is really strange class for pre-requisites to change to it. I am trying to figure out the exact requirements to be met, but I can only manage to go straight to Legendary Ordainer, not any of the lower ranks. The only conclusion I can say with complete certainty is the requirements we think are required are not. For starters: *Rush will only change to Ordainer class if he has an Axe in his main hand, this is far from the Katana requirement previously thought to be right. *If I learn all Combat Arts with all wield styles and all weapon XP counters @ 5000XP limit Rush will change to Legendary rank. Otherwise he won't change class, but I think this has something to do with pure luck. I don't think all weapon XP maxed is a requirement, rather it just satisfies the requirements by chance as the actual requirements lie within the scope of all Combat Arts, but not exactly all. *All Wield Styles seems to play some role in changing, but maybe not all weapons all wields. Axe Specific combat arts are most likely the primary requirements to change to this class, and to get all those requires all wield styles. *Rush wouldn't change for me without ~4000XP in all wield style counters (2H, 1H, PG, DW). *I brute forced all combat arts to max XP because any less would prevent class change, though I haven't figured out which ones were preventing the chance exactly, just sheer luck in this case. I need to dwell on this class more and figure out how to change to base Ordainer rank, and step through each rank of the class one by one. Only then will the requirements be something I can reproduce without having to resort to MAxing out XP counters. This class shouldn't be nearly as impossible as it seems to change to, as Ninja or Warlock are nowhere near as difficult to obtain in a play through, so this should be no different albeit the approach. Mikeyakame 05:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Requirements, as taken straight from the class record: All weapon types skill level 19 for Ordainer, 20 for Expert, 21 for Adept, 22 for Master, 23 for Lordly, and 25 for Legendary. That's it. None of the other nonsense matters one bit, although i didn't check Item/Mystic relation. I don't think it matters though. Drake178 07:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Ok sure I see the values, but what do those skill levels mean exactly and what are they extrapolated from? Mikeyakame 07:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I'll make a xp -> skill level table sometime. Drake178 07:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I've used Axe through my whole game (mostly power grip). I've maxed out all the power grip arts, and my Rush is Scout. I only have one of the two axe arts for one handed though. Seattlebrian 11:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Forget what I wrote Drake is right here, I shouldn't look too deep into things on very little sleep as the end result is missing important details. It requires all 6 types of weapons. Skill Level 19 for Ordainer base is approximately 2600-2650XP for each Weapon type. It's quite a lot in other words. Everytime you use a combat art and successfully hit the target you get 4XP in normal conditions, 6XP from 200-399 chains, 8XP from 400+. So it's basically a class that requires at least a week or two of solid grinding in Mystic Seal to change into. It took me ~20 ranks just to get my Skill Levels to 9 - 10 for all 6 weapons, which is nearly half way. I am upto 690 chains in Fornstrand and out of Items for recovery, and I'm going to change myself to Legendary Ordainer the ethically incorrect way because I'll go crazy if I keep this up. The one key lesson I've learnt from this class is that you have to start working at it from the beginning of the game when you have 12 or less party members, and they all have crappy weapons. Otherwise you end up in my predicament, where a S/SS rank combat art use in Mystic Seal does easy 10+K HP damage at full morale. I've even had some do 20-30K HP hits, you'd think with 0 atk it'd be impossible, but apparently that 20-30K in Mystic Seal does 100-120K in a normal formation with ~200-220ATK. Mikeyakame 14:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Item/Mystic Art Skill Level Equivalence Requirement Well after all the stress Drake suffered from me. I guess I owe him something for it. So here's my penance. Ordainer Class requires skill levels for Item Arts >= Mystic Arts to change class. Just to be certain this time, I first set all 6 Weapon XP to 3700 which gave me the equivalent of Skill Level 25 on each after I triggered the update by using combat arts with each Weapon. Ok so now I am at the situation where all Skill Levels for weapons are 25 so I've met the primary requirements for Ordainer but no change even after 2 or 3 battles at this point. So I thought about what the problem could be, and I remember you saying you never bothered testing the skill levels of Item & Mystic arts for this class. Well Rush being a Legendary Commander you can imagine how one-sided my skill levels were :D This is how they looked: *Mystic: Inv - 4, Evo - 4, Hex - 6, Rem - 21, Psi - 18, Ward - 25 *Item: Herb - 9, Potion - 1, Lotions - 13, Expl - 1, Shards - 7, Traps - 1 Without a doubt they are mystic sided heavily. So I made a few small changes to Item Art skill levels before the next battle ( Herb = 19, Potion = 11, Explosives = 11, Shards = 9, Traps = 12 ) as these values would have at least balanced out the mystic art skill levels at the bare minimum and since I don't quite know how the code evaluates the skill levels for either type whether it be Median skill level, or some fancy approach. None the less what would you know, Rush has changed to Legendary Ordainer at the end of the battle ;) So there is definitely a loop there that evaluates Mystic & Item Art usage before a class change occurs, I probably went a bit overboard on the Item Art skill levels but at least we now have the final piece of the class change puzzle. Whether it is Item & Mystic equivalent skill levels or Item skill levels collectively higher than Mystic, it narrows it down to 2 possible scenarios, for Equivalent Skill Levels if Item Arts are too high it is a simple matter of spamming Mystic Arts enough until class change happens. This is much easier to do than the alternative of spamming Item Arts to play catch up. In the other scenario Item Arts greater than Mystic well after going through all this rigmarole to change to Ordainer class I would have anybody ask themselves this, why the hell would you bother spending valuable battle turns on learning Mystic Arts when the Weapon Specific Skill Level requirements for this class to be reached will take no less than a good 60 - 70 battle ranks and at least 2-300 hours of repetitive grinding to clock up the necessary combat art usage, mystic art usage is the least of your problems I think. From my rough calculations if you never break 200 battle chains in your game, it should take roughly: *~900 successful combat art uses with each weapon to reach the Skill Level for Legendary Ordainer, that is 4XP * 900 = 3600XP which translates to Skill Level 24. 3700XP gives me Skill Level 25. *Assume 900 successful hits, no misses or KO before use, that means 5400 successful combat art uses MINIMUM, but more likely will be nearer 6000 by the time you account for misses and other non-success states. The ultimate way to fail an attempt for this class is by using weapons with decent stats or worse high stats. Best thing you can do is buy all 6 types of weapons from the Athlum weapon shop at the beginning of the game, and use these 6 weapons for all your Combat Art usage. Why you ask? Their stats suck and even when using Mystic Seal formation (which you will have to use if you would prefer not to see your battle rank at 150+ just to change to this class) your SS rank combat arts at Peerless or Swift will do pathetic damage, probably equivalent to the damage of a Peerless Rank C Combat Art with a 150+ ATK weapon while in Mystic Seal. So key to this class is make sure your weapons suck, and so do the rest of the guys in your union or otherwise disable all arts that can do moderate damage and hinder your progress. Mikeyakame 17:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I'm already looking into the class change mechanics, but it will take a few days at least to figure it out. Drake178 07:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC) damn, i have a lot of doubts... to get that... you need to use for example... sword in one handed, in two handed and in dual wield?, and same with axe, katana, mace? then staff and spear would be faster and other thing... i have been using dual wield with swords all time and got the last (SS rank) skill... how much "skill level" would be that? Thanks in advance :P 20:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)Peilor :The wields don't matter, only the weapon skills, ie you can use sword, katana, axe and mace all one-handed (or any other wield style). I'll check this later but if by any chance dual wield gains xp with both weapons then using DW with 2 different ones would be the fastest way to get Ordainer. And as for skill levels required for stuff that's my next research. Drake178 22:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC) If you are going to use dual wield, make sure Katana is the last weapon you use otherwise there is a good chance you'll become a Ninja instead of an Ordainer :) Mikeyakame 01:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Don't worry mike, i play in xbox version, and thanks for replying drake. I'll start grinding skills after i do some grinding in ancient ruins (at last). Oh btw, i grind in robelia castle as mentioned in "rush only skill stuff" in the wiki, it was kind of useful to getting all herb skills with my leaders :P 10:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)Peilord what specific arts should i level up on the way to get ordainer? is it a weapon specific arts (ex: sword-cross slice) or wield specific arts (ex: onehand-knee splitter)? im confused :?